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Thu, Aug 19 2010 | Published in Angel Life

Geek feminism and relational aggression: Are we the real “Mean Girls”?

By: violetzombie

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This is the first in a multipart series on the intersection between feminism and geekery, inspired by this post at Geek Feminism. Stay tuned for what will, hopefully, be a weekly column from several of our staffers.

Geek Feminism is not something that I’ve put a whole lot of stock into until recently. As a latecomer to feminism (indoctrinated shortly after reading Naomi Wolf’s “The Beauty Myth”), I have often looked past the misogyny inherent in (nearly all facets of) geekdom. More often than I care to count, I’ve been the recipient of blatant sexism and downright hatred of women, especially during the time I spent working in the IT world. I’ve been a technician, a software developer, and a web developer. I’ve been involved in many avenues of geekery since I was old enough to hold a controller.

Up until 2009, I really didn’t like women.

…………………..

I’d always thought of mainstream feminism as bra-burning and terrifying. Most of the females that I knew (especially those I knew during my days of gender dysphoria), were petty, anti-intellectual, and shared a singular mob mentality whose tendencies were more virulent than vibrant. I had nothing in common with the typical woman. For me, woman had become the enemy. Woman would often steal away my male friends during game nights. Woman would often crash our gaming parties and pout petulantly in the corner. Woman would destroy my relationships with my male friends because of jealousy.

Woman was, above anything else, dangerous.

Misogyny isn’t something a person is born with. We love our mothers. We love our sisters. We love our aunts and cousins and best friends at school. Misogyny is learned behaviour. Misogyny and anti-feminist attitudes amongst gamers and geeks are often developed because of an absence of a strong female role-model. In addition to no chicks in the gaming circles, guys find articles on the internet (that may or may not) tout the superiority of men in a genetic sense.

I didn’t learn to hate women from my father. If my dad hated women, he never would have taken any interest in my development. He would have ignored me. But he didn’t. He was (and still is) a veritable role model for me as a geek.

However, learn to hate women I did. My days were spent with teenage boys whose anti-feminist attitudes were more poisonous to my growth as a woman than I care to admit. Often as the only girl in the group, I spent my time mouthing off about how much I hated the fact that girls didn’t get us. They were often the ones throwing gum at us or writing snide remarks on our lockers in indelible ink. I figured that if my fellow geeks didn’t respect women, then there must be something wrong with mainstream chicks.

…………………..

In 2009, I met @gamingangel on Twitter. It was the beginning of a long road of recovery from years of learned misogyny. I’m the Gaming Angels poster child of the Recovering Woman Hater.

…………………..

We are on the cusp of something great, we women in games and women in geekdom. We find ourselves in an interesting position as we move forward with geek feminism. We have the opportunity to shout our existence from the rooftops. We have the ability to support our fellow woman geek and lift her up. We have the responsibility to curb learned misogyny before it starts, especially with young men.

Instead, we find ourselves exhibiting the same kind of relational aggression that helped contribute to my learned misogyny in the first place.

Female geeks are ten thousand times more likely to look at a woman who self-identifies as geeky in some way and say, “Oh, she’s not a real geek/she’s not a real gamer,” with the understood end of the sentence being, “…like I am.” We need to embrace our fellow females, regardless of perceived level of geekiness, and also to recognize that “coming out” as a geek woman is a tough process, especially when it comes to having to deal with learned misogyny and the males within geek culture.

How often have we heard that coming out of our mouths or flying from our fingers as we angrily type text messages, IMs, and forum posts? I can tell you that I still find myself discounting other female geeks just because they’re not as hardcore as I am about gaming or RPGs or CCGs or whatever the heck I’m playing at the time. In addition to slagging fellow female geeks, we have the tendency to go back to the same list of female celebrity geeks and discount their geekdom almost as easily as dudes have discounted us in the past. We often think of them as celebrities first, female second, and geek far, far down the line. Suddenly, we’re wallowing in, “They can’t be geeks because of XYZ Reason.”

Hasn’t that reasoning been applied to us at one point or another?

It’s time to gather our courage and stand next to one another – we female geeks – and support. The only thing derision is good for is dividing us and making it that much more difficult to identify with one another. We will be inadvertently alienating the young women who have been subject to learned misogyny within our geek culture by making it more difficult for them to break into “the club”.

“No, you are not a Real Geek. Go away, little girl.”

Enough is enough.

Stand together or not at all.

…………………..

We fall apart in our resolve, more often than not. Actually practicing what we preach, especially in this arena, is one of the most difficult things in the world. Think about it: the majority of human beings are taught to recognize that the male half of the species does things one way, the female half does things – likely completely different things – in other ways. Unless you have some extremely progressive parents, you probably grew up with one of these mindsets, even if you’ve worked to forget it in favor of complete equality between the genders in your life.

Unfortunately, this learned gender divide (which originated in the practices of prehistoric generations) manages to subsist, even in subcultures like Geek World. For some, Geek World and Girl World just can’t co-exist. We know the types – the game store manager who asks if you’re shopping for your boyfriend, the frat boys who won’t let you into their Halo tourney, even members of your own family.

When you’re confronted with this personal disconnect, it’s hard to recover. Many women do, but when some don’t, we’re left with self-defeating reminders of a truth that isn’t. Even in gaming subcultures, preconceived notions about women get pounded into our skulls. Women only play casual games. They don’t play online, they don’t play shooters, they don’t do the things that we can assume men do. In defiance, we subconsciously (or consciously) define the “male” way of doing things as right.

We’re left with “Real gamers play shooters, they don’t play casual titles and they definitely play online multiplayer” along with a whole host of misconceptions that we don’t really tend to think twice about.

We tend to discount our fellow females as a result. It has to stop, but knowing and understanding the “why” is the first step.

…………………..

We question the validity of our status as geeks. We question the validity of the other women in our geekdom, sizing them up as both competition and comrades. Our validity is questioned by the masses as we fight to maintain our Geek without losing our Female.

We Angels are standing up for Geek, both as women and as geeks. We encourage you to do the same.

…………………..

This article was co-written with Tiffany (@kweenie), Trina (@gamingangel), and Elizabeth (@cherithe). Tell us what you think in the comments. We’d love to hear your thoughts.

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Tags: benevolent feminism, communities, female gamers, Female gaming communities, female geek communities, females, Feminism, gaming, gaming culture, gamingangels, geek feminism, geeks, girl gamers, girl geeks, girls, learned misogyny, mean girls, misogyny, relational aggression, Women
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violetzombie

About violetzombie

Gamer chick of the Canadian variety. 2nd generation nerd. Warhammer 40K General. Goddess of Code. Shameless BioWare fangirl. Slayer of Dragons (and Dungeons). @violetzombie
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Ana

Thank you for putting into written words something I've been struggling with for years.It was hard enough being an awkward, bean poll of a girl going into my local comic shop at age 14, asking for the latest Uncanny or Wolverine title, and have some guy stare blankly at me while chewing his own cud exclaim, "Are you picking those up for your brother?"Fast forward a decade and change, I have grown and groomed myself into something society would consider "pleasing to the eye" and still continue my geeky pursuits of comic reading, video game playing, and dressing up like it's Halloween every chance I get. I have grown used to the comments from guys salivating over "what's beneath that spandex suit!" but cannot get past the slew of comments from women I find on the net, at conventions, or even at my local comic shop! "She's just some babe they hired to wear that outfit," or "You want the manga section, right? It's over there" (and that came from a girl at a comic shop I frequented in Orlando who was wearing an Avengers tee-shirt!). Though I am not a mainstay in the gaming world, I can attest I have encountered all this and more in my fandom of comic s and costuming.I wish more geek girls would embrace their fellow females. While we've grown in numbers over the years, we're still a rare breed.Thank you for your article, and you have a new reader to your site because of it!

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Ramenth

Now, I'm a guy so maybe it's possible I've just missed all of this when hanging out with my gamer-girl friends. And, true, it's unquestionable that some of this exists, especially the so called "Hardcore gamer population" where people actually think things like “Oh, she’s not a real geek/she’s not a real gamer,” with the understood end of the sentence being, “…like I am.”I do feel as though I should point something out there. Girl or guy, people who actually think/talk/act like that are morons, and most gamers despise them. There's no such thing as gamer pride anymore. That might have been true when it was purely the domain of the uber-geeks, but frankly, for the past decade this hasn't really been the case. There may still be a negative stigma, but there's no super-exclusive 'real gamer culture', and perpetuating the cycle of that ideology just reinforces the "lawl I'm special" view a tiny minority of gamers have that looks bad for the rest of us.Like I said, I'm a guy. I can't talk about female gamer culture as a whole. But I can say, unequivocally, stop perpetuating terrible stereotypes that originate in very small minority of the culture that the rest of us would just as soon forget exists. It has nothing to do with feminism or misogyny, and everything to do with people trying desperately to find some way to be elitist about their activities, and failing really really hard at it.

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sykopathicfairy

I have stared at the screen trying to figure out how I wanna say what I feel about this topic. I have issues with it. I have issues with relating to women. I have never in my life been girly. Pink is a scary color. Having said that...
1. I agree that female gamers are always sizing up the competition rather than giving a kind word. I have seen so many games where the teams are: a group of guys with a token female. And man is that female territorial!
2. I feel the fractures in geek world. I dont read comic books or watch anime or play RPGs. To a lot of people I am sooo not hardcore. Whatever! I was playing Magic before many of these new kids were even born!! Geek is geek. Its still just finding the geek you have in common. Just like the football players think they are so much more hardcore than the tennis players. Its all jock to me.
3. I don't like that people, including women, feel that the more casual aspects of gaming are for women in particular. I want my games to be loud, crass, bloody, and full of big guns. I dont usually have a female moment of gamers bubble bath and revert to something more quiet or less competitive. Writing articles on female gamers lumps us into a stero-type when the pen hits the paper. The same with old gamers, married gamers, black gamers, gay gamers... We are NOT all the same. I am an old, married, female gamer. It does not mean that I only play relaxing games as my husbands co-op partner.
4. I dont see that theres anything wrong with not identifying with the mainstream woman. I am 30 and still cant. I couldnt at 10 or 20 either. Because I have boobs it does not mean I have to love everyone who does. They certainly don't. I might as well be walking around with a tin foil hat on to keep out the government in their eyes. I cant reach out to every female gamer I find. And if I am nice to all of them, well thats a special treatment I dont give any other stereo-type. I judge the gamer as an individual. If you are worthy of my respect and partnership, that is determined by your person. Not your boobs. I have met some worthy competition, that still uses xbl as a trolling place for boys. Not my thing, sorry.I dont think this article is wonderful or terrible.I think its a great perspective from one woman. And more power to ya.

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Erika

That's comforting to hear I was little worried this site was heading in a weird direction. I follow this site because I think its more relevant to what women want from gaming.LOL I love the comment above about guys getting huffy. Most guys don't get huffy with me. However there is a regular game night at my husbands work. Most the gals who come dont often want the more strategy heavy games. So it not an unfair assumption where the new guys at work don't consider me a threat. I have a rouge playing style and my husband and our friend try to warn them but they usually learn the hard way.In fairness to the guys as well the overcompensating of girl gamers often leads to their defensiveness. We played a one shot pathfinder game at Gencon. There was one other women in our table. The first thing she did ws try to engage me in girl talk. She eventuallly started ingoring the game in favor of chatting which I'm sure annoyed the other players as well.I'm all for chat but lets not be exclusive.

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Annie

This was a terrible article. It enforces the myth of the 'sisterhood' and tries to explain how we're somehow responsible for the actions of misogynistic men, through our own 'misogynistic' behavior. Here's a news flash: if women hate other women, it's because they hate them as individuals.For the most part, this has nothing to do with misogyny at all. We aren't responsible for what men do, and though it's within our power to try to educate men on their behaviors, it's the responsibility of men and men alone to want to be educated. Many enlightened men know well enough not to behave this way, but it isn't the fault of "some woman" if someone behaves in a misogynistic manner. It is NOT our fault. Arguing that it is our fault is nothing more than internalized sexism, and that isn't what feminism is about.

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Cherith

Of course everyone's experiences in geek culture are going to be different, but I think @violetzombie's point was to talk about where she's come from and how accepting her own geek nature has helped her.From a GamingAngels perspective - it's about learning to be accepting of the different levels of geek. Saying a girl doesn't belong in geek/gaming culture for x, y, z reasons isn't who we are. And in this field it's a pervasive attitude the: 'she doesn't like this, or doesn't game like that, so she doesn't really belong'. We want to be a place where women, regardless of their experiences with the culture can come and get the news, reviews, and information they might be interested in.

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Erika

Dislike of mean nasty women who mock gamers somehow translates to misogyny? That makes no sense.Men and women game differently. The sexes are different. Acepting people who have different interests and playing styles is basic polite was and decency.I used to be a feminst years ago. Because feminism has taught generations of women that they are victims alot of women overcompensate as gamers. They think they have to loud aggressive or obnoxious to compete. Women don't natural compete in the same way men do.I game with my husband and other serious gamers but sometimes I'm in the mood for lighter games. I've neve been "victimized"

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violetzombie

I'm not much of a victim, myself. Been subject to some serious nastiness in my time on the gaming field. Some of it was hateful. Most of it was just trash talk.The important thing for me was to just... share my story and what I've learned.It wasn't that I didn't like chicks who didn't dig games: I didn't like chicks. Straight up. I knew NO gamer girls until 2008. So.. yes. I saw my own gender as the enemy for a long, long time. I just... wanted to put it out there that we're not alone in this.I'm not generally loud-mouthed or stereotypically "overcompensating" in my gamerhood. I just play the games, do my thing, and would prefer for guys not to get all huffy when they get their butts kicked by the chick.

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Rosalind

I think I agree with almost everything said. Geek girls do need to have each other's backs, and all kinds. My friends are all sorts of geeks (gamers, scifi, anime, fantasy, science, etc.) and I think all kinds of geek should be appreciated. That's one of the reasons our blog celebrates so many different fandoms, because we may geek out over different things, but it's still geeking out!Also, definitely still a woman and a geek. I want my geek stuff to include women's t-shirts, accessories, and the ability to game without being immediately put behind my husband.I'll be keeping an eye out for most posts like this, because our whole blog exists because geeks and girls should and do come together, and we need to support each other!Rosalind
Girls Are Geeks

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HamsterFist

Great article! Now, can I see your boobs?(I am totally joking btw. Don't get mad!)

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moarinternets

Great article! Thank you for writing this!I went through this similar woman-hate in my late teens, early 20s. Mostly it was borne out of frustration. Why couldn't I do X, when guys could do X without question? Did I have to get married and have kids to be a "real woman" etc. I used to wish I was born a man. Now I look back and realize how silly all of that was.I'm not entirely sure what led to the epiphany, maybe it was just the zeitgeist of the 2000's. Maybe it was just some introspection and question about who I really am. Maybe it was the fact a lot of my guy friends got married and stopped hanging out. Maybe its a little bit of everything. Either way, I'm happy with the result. "Geek" is a big tent, there's a lot of diversity in that tent. We should be proud of it.This is why groups like She's Geeky, Girls in Tech and sites like Gaming Angels are so incredibly important. I'm really proud to have brought She's Geeky to the Twin Cities.I look forward to reading the weekly column!

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Marcie

I don't know what to say about this bit I agree so wholeheartedly. I too am new to feminism and, yes I'm a gamer geek.I find the sexism in gamer culture shocking and repulsive. I once even brought it up in a post on my home community of older gamers. A place where I am well known and fairly well liked.The result? One of the most scathing, horribly written straw feminist articles on the front page. Got picked up by reddit too. All written by another woman.Why? Cause she hates other women? I don't know. But the sexism that came out in the comments was insane.Anyway. This is near and dear to me. I wrote a piece about sexy women, gamers and double bind of modern feminism once. I'm still figuring out what I think and how I am going to act.Either way it's nice to know there are women out there who have my back.Thank you

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Ana

Thank you for putting into written words something I've been struggling with for years.

It was hard enough being an awkward, bean poll of a girl going into my local comic shop at age 14, asking for the latest Uncanny or Wolverine title, and have some guy stare blankly at me while chewing his own cud exclaim, "Are you picking those up for your brother?"

Fast forward a decade and change, I have grown and groomed myself into something society would consider "pleasing to the eye" and still continue my geeky pursuits of comic reading, video game playing, and dressing up like it's Halloween every chance I get. I have grown used to the comments from guys salivating over "what's beneath that spandex suit!" but cannot get past the slew of comments from women I find on the net, at conventions, or even at my local comic shop! "She's just some babe they hired to wear that outfit," or "You want the manga section, right? It's over there" (and that came from a girl at a comic shop I frequented in Orlando who was wearing an Avengers tee-shirt!). Though I am not a mainstay in the gaming world, I can attest I have encountered all this and more in my fandom of comic s and costuming.

I wish more geek girls would embrace their fellow females. While we've grown in numbers over the years, we're still a rare breed.

Thank you for your article, and you have a new reader to your site because of it!

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fangirlzab

I'm going to have to disagree with you in one teeny-tiny regard. It's not just geek women that display this sort of behavior. It's a wide-spread problem. Here's one study that discusses how women deal with other women in the workplace-- it's the same cycle of behavior. http://minds.wisconsin.edu/handle/1793/7222

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Cherith

Oh, it is an extremely common issue among women in general. There's a great book - Odd Girl Out - that has a bunch of stories from girls in ELEMENTARY SCHOOL that exhibit this same type of behavior. The point here is that geek culture seems to be one of those accepting sub-cultures, where we feel like we should be able to kick back and relax, because they people we're with are supposed to like the same stuff we do. And then we seem to find the same sort of behavior in what's supposed to be an accepting culture, and it's disappointing.

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Ramenth

Now, I'm a guy so maybe it's possible I've just missed all of this when hanging out with my gamer-girl friends. And, true, it's unquestionable that some of this exists, especially the so called "Hardcore gamer population" where people actually think things like u00e2u0080u009cOh, sheu00e2u0080u0099s not a real geek/sheu00e2u0080u0099s not a real gamer,u00e2u0080u009d with the understood end of the sentence being, u00e2u0080u009cu00e2u0080u00a6like I am.u00e2u0080u009d

I do feel as though I should point something out there. Girl or guy, people who actually think/talk/act like that are morons, and most gamers despise them. There's no such thing as gamer pride anymore. That might have been true when it was purely the domain of the uber-geeks, but frankly, for the past decade this hasn't really been the case. There may still be a negative stigma, but there's no super-exclusive 'real gamer culture', and perpetuating the cycle of that ideology just reinforces the "lawl I'm special" view a tiny minority of gamers have that looks bad for the rest of us.

Like I said, I'm a guy. I can't talk about female gamer culture as a whole. But I can say, unequivocally, stop perpetuating terrible stereotypes that originate in very small minority of the culture that the rest of us would just as soon forget exists. It has nothing to do with feminism or misogyny, and everything to do with people trying desperately to find some way to be elitist about their activities, and failing really really hard at it.

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sykopathicfairy

I have stared at the screen trying to figure out how I wanna say what I feel about this topic. I have issues with it. I have issues with relating to women. I have never in my life been girly. Pink is a scary color. Having said that...
1. I agree that female gamers are always sizing up the competition rather than giving a kind word. I have seen so many games where the teams are: a group of guys with a token female. And man is that female territorial!
2. I feel the fractures in geek world. I dont read comic books or watch anime or play RPGs. To a lot of people I am sooo not hardcore. Whatever! I was playing Magic before many of these new kids were even born!! Geek is geek. Its still just finding the geek you have in common. Just like the football players think they are so much more hardcore than the tennis players. Its all jock to me.
3. I don't like that people, including women, feel that the more casual aspects of gaming are for women in particular. I want my games to be loud, crass, bloody, and full of big guns. I dont usually have a female moment of gamers bubble bath and revert to something more quiet or less competitive. Writing articles on female gamers lumps us into a stero-type when the pen hits the paper. The same with old gamers, married gamers, black gamers, gay gamers... We are NOT all the same. I am an old, married, female gamer. It does not mean that I only play relaxing games as my husbands co-op partner.
4. I dont see that theres anything wrong with not identifying with the mainstream woman. I am 30 and still cant. I couldnt at 10 or 20 either. Because I have boobs it does not mean I have to love everyone who does. They certainly don't. I might as well be walking around with a tin foil hat on to keep out the government in their eyes. I cant reach out to every female gamer I find. And if I am nice to all of them, well thats a special treatment I dont give any other stereo-type. I judge the gamer as an individual. If you are worthy of my respect and partnership, that is determined by your person. Not your boobs. I have met some worthy competition, that still uses xbl as a trolling place for boys. Not my thing, sorry.

I dont think this article is wonderful or terrible.I think its a great perspective from one woman. And more power to ya.

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Erika

That's comforting to hear I was little worried this site was heading in a weird direction. I follow this site because I think its more relevant to what women want from gaming.

LOL I love the comment above about guys getting huffy. Most guys don't get huffy with me. However there is a regular game night at my husbands work. Most the gals who come dont often want the more strategy heavy games. So it not an unfair assumption where the new guys at work don't consider me a threat. I have a rouge playing style and my husband and our friend try to warn them but they usually learn the hard way.

In fairness to the guys as well the overcompensating of girl gamers often leads to their defensiveness. We played a one shot pathfinder game at Gencon. There was one other women in our table. The first thing she did ws try to engage me in girl talk. She eventuallly started ingoring the game in favor of chatting which I'm sure annoyed the other players as well.

I'm all for chat but lets not be exclusive.

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violetzombie

I dig you. I dig your perspective. Nicely put.

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Erika

Thank:)

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Annie

This was a terrible article. It enforces the myth of the 'sisterhood' and tries to explain how we're somehow responsible for the actions of misogynistic men, through our own 'misogynistic' behavior. Here's a news flash: if women hate other women, it's because they hate them as individuals.

For the most part, this has nothing to do with misogyny at all. We aren't responsible for what men do, and though it's within our power to try to educate men on their behaviors, it's the responsibility of men and men alone to want to be educated. Many enlightened men know well enough not to behave this way, but it isn't the fault of "some woman" if someone behaves in a misogynistic manner. It is NOT our fault. Arguing that it is our fault is nothing more than internalized sexism, and that isn't what feminism is about.

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Cherith

Of course everyone's experiences in geek culture are going to be different, but I think @violetzombie's point was to talk about where she's come from and how accepting her own geek nature has helped her.

From a GamingAngels perspective - it's about learning to be accepting of the different levels of geek. Saying a girl doesn't belong in geek/gaming culture for x, y, z reasons isn't who we are. And in this field it's a pervasive attitude the: 'she doesn't like this, or doesn't game like that, so she doesn't really belong'. We want to be a place where women, regardless of their experiences with the culture can come and get the news, reviews, and information they might be interested in.

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Shawn

Well said, Annie. Truthfully, I have no idea how any of the subject matter discussed in this article translates into misogyny. That's a very drastic assumption.

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Ramenth

You're misidentifying "girl doesn't belong" with "Any who isnt me doesn't belong because I'm special and want to be elitist." Yeah, they say "oh you're a girl so you can't do it", but frankly it's hardly limited to that. Fauxelitism is what makes the gaming world go round for the 10-15% who care, while the rest of us groan and cover our faces with our hands and try to pretend those people dont exist. Because if you look carefully, you'll find that those are, at the end of the day, the only people who say "doesn't really belong."

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Cherith

Whether it's thinking that they don't belong, or someone wanting to think they're better than someone else for whatever reason, men or women, we're trying to say that geek culture is big enough for all of us. It's not specific to gaming, and though we don't know what sort of percentage of people have dealt with being treated like they're not up to some arbitrary standard for the culture, it's still too much.

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Ramenth

Yeah, but as unfortunate as it is, it's also human nature. Any distinction between groups of people is, ultimately, an arbitrary one. And because human culture has developed in such a way that it rewards exclusivity, this always going to be true. I'm not saying you're wrong for disliking it and trying to change it, I just think you're arguing with an inevitability. More props to you for doing so, but you're not going to effect meaningful change, it's too deeply ingrained in our collective unconscious.

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Erika

Dislike of mean nasty women who mock gamers somehow translates to misogyny? That makes no sense.

Men and women game differently. The sexes are different. Acepting people who have different interests and playing styles is basic polite was and decency.

I used to be a feminst years ago. Because feminism has taught generations of women that they are victims alot of women overcompensate as gamers. They think they have to loud aggressive or obnoxious to compete. Women don't natural compete in the same way men do.

I game with my husband and other serious gamers but sometimes I'm in the mood for lighter games. I've neve been "victimized"

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candybeans

I hear you on the overcompensation. It's that same group that tends to discount other women for not gaming like they do. It doesn't necessarily indicate victimization.

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violetzombie

I'm not much of a victim, myself. Been subject to some serious nastiness in my time on the gaming field. Some of it was hateful. Most of it was just trash talk.

The important thing for me was to just... share my story and what I've learned.

It wasn't that I didn't like chicks who didn't dig games: I didn't like chicks. Straight up. I knew NO gamer girls until 2008. So.. yes. I saw my own gender as the enemy for a long, long time. I just... wanted to put it out there that we're not alone in this.

I'm not generally loud-mouthed or stereotypically "overcompensating" in my gamerhood. I just play the games, do my thing, and would prefer for guys not to get all huffy when they get their butts kicked by the chick.

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Amanda

I agree, Erika.

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candybeans

But yeah, disliking doesn't translate to misogyny. The thing that translates into misogyny is being a woman who mocks fellow female gamers and geeks. Sorry I didn't clarify earlier.

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Rosalind

I think I agree with almost everything said. Geek girls do need to have each other's backs, and all kinds. My friends are all sorts of geeks (gamers, scifi, anime, fantasy, science, etc.) and I think all kinds of geek should be appreciated. That's one of the reasons our blog celebrates so many different fandoms, because we may geek out over different things, but it's still geeking out!

Also, definitely still a woman and a geek. I want my geek stuff to include women's t-shirts, accessories, and the ability to game without being immediately put behind my husband.

I'll be keeping an eye out for most posts like this, because our whole blog exists because geeks and girls should and do come together, and we need to support each other!

Rosalind
Girls Are Geeks

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violetzombie

Totally agree with you on that one, Rosalind. We all need to stand together, female geeks or not. Thanks for re-affirming that in my own mind.

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HamsterFist

Great article! Now, can I see your boobs?

(I am totally joking btw. Don't get mad!)

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violetzombie

Had a good laugh at that one. for srs. XD

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candybeans

It did say another boob word, but *cough* we're family-friendly. Sorry, HamsterFist!

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Lauren Mae

Thank you for saying so many things I have wanted to say but didn't have the words for. I'm excited to continue reading about your journey.

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moarinternets

Great article! Thank you for writing this!

I went through this similar woman-hate in my late teens, early 20s. Mostly it was borne out of frustration. Why couldn't I do X, when guys could do X without question? Did I have to get married and have kids to be a "real woman" etc. I used to wish I was born a man. Now I look back and realize how silly all of that was.

I'm not entirely sure what led to the epiphany, maybe it was just the zeitgeist of the 2000's. Maybe it was just some introspection and question about who I really am. Maybe it was the fact a lot of my guy friends got married and stopped hanging out. Maybe its a little bit of everything. Either way, I'm happy with the result. "Geek" is a big tent, there's a lot of diversity in that tent. We should be proud of it.

This is why groups like She's Geeky, Girls in Tech and sites like Gaming Angels are so incredibly important. I'm really proud to have brought She's Geeky to the Twin Cities.

I look forward to reading the weekly column!

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violetzombie

Geek is most certainly a huge tent. That's the great thing about our little subculture: it shouldn't matter what gender you are, as long as you're a geek. Because honestly, I'm a geek first (always will be) but I'm still a chick. No reason the two need to be mutually exclusive.

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Marcie

I don't know what to say about this bit I agree so wholeheartedly. I too am new to feminism and, yes I'm a gamer geek.

I find the sexism in gamer culture shocking and repulsive. I once even brought it up in a post on my home community of older gamers. A place where I am well known and fairly well liked.

The result? One of the most scathing, horribly written straw feminist articles on the front page. Got picked up by reddit too. All written by another woman.

Why? Cause she hates other women? I don't know. But the sexism that came out in the comments was insane.

Anyway. This is near and dear to me. I wrote a piece about sexy women, gamers and double bind of modern feminism once. I'm still figuring out what I think and how I am going to act.

Either way it's nice to know there are women out there who have my back.

Thank you

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Trackbacks

  1. Geek Feminism – On Catfights and How We Can Possibly Get it Together « Yelling at Pixels says:
    August 19, 2010 at 8:29 am

    [...] topic was explored in an amazing post on GamingAngels.com, please read and comment. It is truly a wonderful piece, inspired by [...]

  2. Frivolity, Indulgence, and the Art of Escapism says:
    August 30, 2010 at 9:38 am

    [...] gamers is rich, vast, and deeply accepting. The only entrance examination required is to show up, check your issues at the door, and play the game. For the most part, gamers are happy to share the couch, the console, and [...]

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